bmw series 8 back seat

Answers and questions: bmw series 8 back seat

BMW SERIES 5 E60 E61 noise in windows or back seat seals telfon fix

I have a 2006 bought used 16000 miles 530i . Been back 2 xx trying to get rid annoying noise (like squeak meets stcky tape rubbing) from back rear door. They have already supposedly replaced the seals before I got the car and just put this teflon tape on the inside of the door panel. To no avail. Not pleased Can you refer me to fixes and is this a systemic issue with other owners Love the car cant hang with noise as I am an audio engineer by trade.

I had to resort to contacting the President of bmw to finally fix the annoying noise at the back of my bmw. This was after taking my car to the bmw dealership four times over a two-year period to try fix the noise - which they never did. I am convinced that this noise in the back of car is widespread among bmw 3-series cars (E90). I have now heard it in four different 3-series bmws and I was told by

BMW SERIES 3 E90 E91 E92 E93 Back Seat Cover

So Im still awaiting my new bmw 335i xDrive...on the way now from Southampton while passing through Halifax...but I wanted to know something from existing owners. I sometimes have to ferry around my little niece and nephew and thus need to have those little kiddie seats put in. Am I insane for worrying about the leather in the back seat And if Im not insane...what kind of covers would people recommend...like

No youre not insane. I have used towels under the car seat and a special rubber padliner that goes between the leather and carseat. The liner can be had in different colors to match the interior or you can but a towel to match. If its just every once in a while I would get the towel as it would be cheaper and I have found out that bmw back seats are not well designed for car seats since they are more contoured (at least the 3 series and X3). The towel can compensate for the variation.

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BMW SERIES 5 GT F07 How far back can you get the passenger seat

Any other than me who think that the passenger seat cant get far enough back In the rare ocations when Im in the passenger seat I want to take the seat even further back then it allows me. Im 6 foot and cant get the seat far enough back so I can stretch my legs -( Do you seem to be able to take the seat further back

Depends how low or high you want to sit. Another pet peeve of mine with the bmw seat is that as you raise it it goes forward (on a canted lift system). If you go low is goes back further. The 3 serries seatslifts are more straight up and down so you dont lose leg room likle in the 5 and 7 series. That sais the GT and 7 are big so it somewhat makes up for the loss.

BMW SERIES 5 F10 F11 Dog protection for the back seat

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good back seat protector for an F10 535ix The new addition to the family is presently only 3 months old but is projected to grow to 70 pounds (shepherd lab mix rescue). I see that bmw sells an accessory that goes from front head rests to back head rests but its only for 7-series. (Ive been trying to supply a link but for some reason the bimmerfest editor wont

BMW SERIES 3 E46 HELP Anyone having a child seat in the back of their e46 Convertible

I just tried to fit our forward facing child seat for our 18 months old son into the e46 convertible rear seat ... no way I fit pefectly and secure into the back seat of our e30 convertible with lots of space for the front passenger to stretch their legs. It seems the rear seat of the e46 is smaller than the e30 rear seat ... go figure. The biggest problem are the head rests they are in the way of

Quote Originally Posted by Alex D installing a stock seat with all kinds of padding was dangerous because the seat was completely unstable and wiggled around. This is true but modifying the seat is not the solution. Calling bmw and asking them what seat fits in the back of your car is a solution. Not putting any seat in your car and not using it to drive your child around is a solution. What you did is stupid and dangerous and could have tragic consequences.

I also found out that bmw sells a full line of great seats in Germany ... but not here in the US. httpwww.bmw.dededeownersacces...erfinder.html I will check your suggestion out ASAP I guess this is for a Convertible. Hee is the post from the link you provided seat INFORMATION seat brandCombiseat nameKobuckCAR INFORMATION makebmwmodel330CIyear2003INSTALLATION INFO seating row2nd Rowseating positionPassenger

BMW SERIES 3 E90 E91 E92 E93 Picture of e90 with baby seat in the back

Hey all Does anyone have or can direct me towards a picture of an e90 with a babyseat installed Im curious how much room is leftover in the rear insofar as how much are you required to move the front seat forward for a standard 1 year old or under car seat. My wife and I dont have kids but were planning on keeping our next car long enough that we should prepare for those pesky buggers. Joe

1) For a kids first year the seat has to be mounted backwards. A backwards-mounted seat in a 3 series is a bit tight but it should be OK if you put it in the middle (which is safer too in case theres a side impact). 2) After the first year the seat gets turned forward and then it fits very comfortably behind either seat. 3) The only problem I could foresee is if you have two kids within 3 years. The

Quote Originally Posted by rwg A child seat should be in the middle huh So its protected from the air bags Arent the air bags in back located high enough that would miss a child seat REgardless lower anchors for the latch system dont exist for the middle seat and the manual says the middle seat is not wide enough for many child restraint seats. The manual oes not say anything that I can find about choosing the center seat to avoid air bags. In my car that center without appropriate latch anchors is exactly where the child seat will NOT go. THere is some common sense truth to the fact that putting the seat in the middle of the car means it is much less likely to be hit in the event of a side impact. But that doesnt help any of the seat isnt secured and your kid goes flying around anyway. I agree that the air bags in the rear (I think) dont in any way threaten a child in a car seat -- the airbags in the rear (I think) are side curtain and as you say they are too high and -- unlike the front air bags -- NOT pointed at the seat occupants face. THE reason to put a kid in the middle position is to avoid the carnage from a side impact. As for the lack of LATCH -- I didnt know that there were no connectors in the middle. We use the seat belt (properly cinched so it is locked down) instead of the latch to restrain the car seat. It works just as well as LATCH -- as long as you attach it correctly. If the OP wants to put a rear-facing car seat on the side rather than the middle -- and he will have to do this once he has a second child -- then (and this was my point in my previous post) that rear-facing car seat will intrude into the front passengers space unless he has purposely bought a smallish child seat. Perhaps the bmw car seats are designed to be small enough for this purpose

BMW SERIES 3 E36 Seat Back Swap

First let me introduce the topic by assuring everyone that even as a noob (to bmws...) I already know enough to use the search function which Ive been doing for the last hour-and-a-half. Lots of good information but by no means exhaustive. Im investigating all the options to deal with my blown-out drivers seat bolster. The leather has a large hole (thanks P.O.) and the cushion is starting to erode

Quote Originally Posted by morzada First let me introduce the topic by assuring everyone that even as a noob (to bmws...) I already know enough to use the search function which Ive been doing for the last hour-and-a-half. Lots of good information but by no means exhaustive. Im investigating all the options to deal with my blown-out drivers seat bolster. The leather has a large hole (thanks P.O.) and

BMW SERIES 3 F30 Back Seat Space 3 v 4 series

Most of the reviews compare the old coupe to the new coupe (4 series) and state that the 4 is longer and wider. Has anyone seen any comparisons on internal space of the 3 v 4 Can a normal person sit in a 4s back seat

The back seat of the 4 is big but isnt not amazing. I can sit in the back seat of the F30 3 series comfortably. The back seat of the 4 series I have to tuck my head it wouldnt be comfortable for longer then a 10-15 minute ride. That being said I am 65 and the F32 does have more head room then the E92. Tim

Quote Originally Posted by tim330i The back seat of the 4 is big but isnt not amazing. I can sit in the back seat of the F30 3 series comfortably. The back seat of the 4 series I have to tuck my head it wouldnt be comfortable for longer then a 10-15 minute ride. That being said I am 65 and the F32 does have more head room then the E92. Tim So youre one of those freaks of nature. . If the F32 has better

Quote Originally Posted by hans007 Im guessing the F32 will be a little bit better than the e92 but still probably not... hey lets drive for 5 hours somewhere level good. cant really expect it honestly. if you sit in the back of a F12 6 series its pretty terrible so i cant imagine it being much better in a F32. Took the words out of my mouth. Sitting in the back seat of a M6 makes you appreciate the

BMW SERIES 5 E39 Back row middle seat belt

My 530 has 3 shoulder belts in the back row. The crazy thing is that the middle belt does not have an anchor to put the belt into. Does anyone know why there is a third belt without the anchor Please advise. Thanks.

Quote Originally Posted by gunship911 Will popping the seat out cause any dashboard lights to come on Quote Originally Posted by gunship911 A friend removed a seat on his 3 series and the airbag light came on. I can see that happening but I bet it was a front seat with a weight sensor that tells the airbag to deploy or not. Trust us the e39 back seat is very simple. Just walk out to your car grab the

BMW SERIES 3 E46 Swapping Seat Backs

Is it possible on a 2003 330Ci with Sports seats to swap the backs of the two seats I ask the question because the heater unit in the drivers seat doesnt work and bmw says the part fix is a new seat back at 600. Rather than pay that Im considering swapping the seat backs since I dont mind giving up the backrest heater in the passengers seat. Thanks

Quote Originally Posted by bjast Is it possible on a 2003 330Ci with Sports seats to swap the backs of the two seats I ask the question because the heater unit in the drivers seat doesnt work and bmw says the part fix is a new seat back at 600. Rather than pay that Im considering swapping the seat backs since I dont mind giving up the backrest heater in the passengers seat. Thanks I am certain you

BMW SERIES 5 F10 F11 BMW F10 front seats and back pain

Having changed from an E60 to an F10 in July 2011 I have suffered no end of back pain problems ever since I spend an average of 2 hours per day and the car has the electric lumbar option. In just a week of driving a work colleagues Volvo my back has become stronger with no issues. Does anybody else experience back pain with these new F10 front seats If you have can you report any successful solutions you may have found. Thanks

LOL. Actually one of the reasons I came to bmw from Mercedes is because it seems they (bmw) build their cars for taller people in comparison. M-B with their historically large boats seem make cars for shorter (than taller) people and I say this because at 64 I cant fit in a CLS or HUGE CL without having to kink my neck its utterly annoying and ridiculous considering Im not Shaq or anything. Even my

BMW SERIES 5 E39 Need help on removing back seat of a E39

How can I remove the back seats of my 99 528i Any help is appreciated.

Quote Originally Posted by Vue_E39 How can I remove the back seats of my 99 528i Any help is appreciated. Removing the seat bench is as described above - pull up hard at the front. If you want to remove the seat back that takes a bit more work ... There are two bolts at the bottom of the seat visible when you open the door and look at the seat back bottom from outside the car - remove those. You also need to remove the three headrests and perhaps the middle headrest bracket. Once that is done lift the seat back straight up (like removing a picture from wall though with more force). There is a full writeup on www.bmwtips.com under tips&tricks in the stereo section. I suggest you give that a read. Bill

BMW SERIES 5 E34 Battery Installation-Back Seat REMOVAL

Oh Dear bmw loving gods...pretty please clue me in as to how I am to remove the back seat to get to that battery I am trying so hard to be a big girl and stay away from the car sharks or whales in a womans case..as they always try to hit you twice as hard when youre a woman seeking a repair anyhow so I refuse to allow the bmw mechanic to drain me for things that I SHOULD be able to take care of myself

back seat - Battery Installation UPDATE HA HA I graduated to BIG GIRL HOOD with out the bmw gods help And I can answer my own question...1) Patience 2) if at first you fail try try again 3) PULL HARD. I got the rear seat up and installed the new battery after having the old one tested and confirmed it is dead. My baby started but choked a few times then stayed on the check engine light and trans program

BMW SERIES 5 E39 Can I swap the front seat backs

Ive searched the forum but havent yet found an answer to whether or not I can switch the front seat backs only on my 2003 530iA. The horizontal seam on the driver seat halfway up has started to press into my back as (I think) the foam underneath above and below it has lost its springiness. Passenger seat is in great shape. Ive looked on bmw Tips and found a few procedures for doing surgery on the seat

BMW SERIES 6 Dogs in the back seat

Hey guys Does anyone ever put large dogs (labs etc.) in the back seat I put down a couple of sheets to protect the leather but with the bucket style and the hump in the middle he is not too comfortable. Im thinking of creating some sort off pad for both seats to create a more even surface for exteded trips. Has anyone tried this or experienced these problems Thanks

Sicks- Ive got two male golden retrievers a 7 month old puppy (43 pounds) and a 2 year old (85 pounds). I bought the bmw rear seat cover (I think it was between 200-300) when I first got the car a year ago. Used it once- its way too much trouble. And its is not that easy to get the dogs into the back seat. When they go for a short ride (to the vet or groomer) one gets on the passenger seat (fasten

BMW SERIES 3 E46 Bad Back & Hammered Bucket Seat

Hi Folks this is my first post. Just purchased a beautiful 2003 330Ci Sapphire Black with black leather interior. The challenge is previous owners butt was much bigger than mine and the seat is hammered. To make matters worse my back is permanently bad and sitting in a bucket seat is one thing sitting in a hard-bottomed bucket is quite another (and growing more painful by the day...) My ventures to

If you search around for the procedure to replace the ABS sensor mat in the passenger seat youll get a very good idea of what dis-assembling the base of your seat involves. If you check here httpwww.realoem.combmwshowparts...45&hg52&fg25 Youll see to replace your entire seat is going to run you 3000 -- so its probably worth trying the DIY for re-stuffing it. Heres the individual parts list - youre

BMW SERIES 5 E39 Passenger seat the back wont tilt on one side

My wife has a slight problem with her bmw passenger seat. When the tilt button is pushed the right side tilt works fine the back of the seat does what its supposed to. The left side however stays in one position and distorts the seat. Ive told her not to have anyone adjust the seat until I can fix it. I was going to pull the seat and see if its a bad motor But Im not sure this application has Motor

BMW SERIES 3 E46 Need help with annoying back seat sound e46

I have a problem with an annoying sound coming from somewhere behind the back seats of my 06 330ci. It basically is a single knocking sound that happens every time I start off from a stopped position or accelerate at low speeds. Sometimes I get it with turning as well. It sounds kind of like a marble dropping on a countertop maybe a little duller than that. The only thing that stops the sound is releasing

released. It can stay in the upright position as long as the release has been pulled. It stays quiet that way. My dealership could not figure it out they told me they adjusted and lubricated the release. I suspect it is something shifting around in the trim pieces back there and that the alignment of the components changes when the seat is released. Ringing any bells for anyone Mitch Im with bmw

Just to let everyone know I did get a call from bmw based on this post. I want to clarify that the dealership could not reproduce the sound (it usually takes a day or two of driving with the seatback locked for it to start). The dealership told me to come back when the sound returned but I havent had a chance yet (it did come back and Im back to driving with the seat lock released again). I posted

BMW SERIES 5 GT F07 Back seat dog protection

Hi folks Im looking for options for a 2011 535ix GT to protect the back seat from the dog moving around back there. I see there is a universal series 5 rear protection kit but it doesnt fit in the GT (or so Im told) Anyone have favorite back seat protection methods for the GT Thanks for sharing KC

Quote Originally Posted by SafariKC Hi folks Im looking for options for a 2011 535ix GT to protect the back seat from the dog moving around back there. I see there is a universal series 5 rear protection kit but it doesnt fit in the GT (or so Im told) Anyone have favorite back seat protection methods for the GT Thanks for sharing KC Nice to see another F07 with a dog. My German shepherd is 100 lbs

BMW SERIES 5 E39 Seat Back Removal Somethings loose...

When making turns at moderate speed something within the seat back is moving from side to side and it is very annoying as theres a noticable thump that can be felt. Need to investigate. All motors adjustments etc are working fine. Any on know how to remove back or have experience with this problem

LOL He said seat back not back seat. How many of you have motorized back seats BTW go to httpwww.bmwtips.com and click on Tips&Tricks. There are several articles posted that should help you. Bill

BMW SERIES 3 E90 E91 E92 E93 Storage for back seats

Hi guys. Since the 3er doesnt have any storage for the back seats whats a neat solution I have seen some seatback organizers with lots of pockets but I just want a simple neat looking one. This one may work httpwww.caselogic.comcase_logic...modelid154980 Are there better ones you use Thank you.

Quote Originally Posted by bimmerguy288 Hi guys. Since the 3er doesnt have any storage for the back seats whats a neat solution I have seen some seatback organizers with lots of pockets but I just want a simple neat looking one. I put the seat back down - if you have that option makes a good parcel shelf. For storage use bmws form fitted luggage for the 3s rear seat or anything else.

Quote Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY I put the seat back down - if you have that option makes a good parcel shelf. For storage use bmws form fitted luggage for the 3s rear seat or anything else. I do have the folddown back seats. I am just looking for some sort of pocketstorage for the rear passengers to put stuff like snack tissues most of those organizers have too many compartments look too messy.

the rear passengers to put stuff like snack tissues most of those organizers have too many compartments look too messy. Quote Originally Posted by Zeichen311 Dont know if you noticed but there is a storage compartment behind the fold-down armrest. It is about large enough to hold the owners manual portfolio (and some people use it for exactly that). You can also order an alternate cassette from bmw.

BMW SERIES 3 E90 E91 E92 E93 My Son threw up in the back seat....arrgghh

The family and I were on the way to Bonefish when my 6yo old son mentions to us that his stomach hurts and requested water. Not knowing how severe his condition was I simply stated that we were almost at the restaurant. Within seconds I heard the proverbial throw up sound quickly followed by splashing I immediately pulled over and made sure he was ok and then went into Mr. Clean OCD mode. Luckily there

Quote Originally Posted by ProfessorCook The back seats the lower part that you actually sit on pull right out. Nothing to unbolt or unscrew. Try grabbing it where the back of your calf would be and pull up and towards you. Thanks...pulled seats out and was able to apply some enzyme based solution I located at a nearby pet shop. Applied once let dry for a day and put the second app on this morning... I will let it dry for another day or so then put the seat back and begin long process of waiting to get that unique bmw smell back.

BMW SERIES 5 E39 Remove back seat (Tourer)

Hi I need to change the whole back seat on my 1998 bmw 523i Tourer (E39) How do I remove the back bit of the seat the bit you put your back against. Regards Garry

Quote Originally Posted by frankhenderson I solved it It is the back cup holders in the center console. I lowered the console and extended the plastic holders - no rattle - just vibration sounds. If you push up lightly on the bottom of the cup holders it is the same noise I heard when it was put away and closed. I have been driving around since yesterday and have not had the problem. I called bmw for

BMW SERIES 3 E36 Passenger Seat Issue forward and backwards

Is there two different motors in the seat for back front and tilt up and down The schematic shows a motor for each. By looking at a spare seat I think that the motor will the axles control the backfront. Anyone have any thoughts Thanks

There are three motors in the power seat. One for up and down one for forward and backward and one for the tilt of the seat back. The motor with the extended axles is the forward and backward movement motor. This info will help....... httpwww.pelicanparts.combmwtech...eat-Repair.htm

BMW SERIES 3 E90 E91 E92 E93 weird wire in back seat

So I found this weird wire hanging out on the right side of my backseats kinda where the leather and the felt meet. It was actually three wires blueredgreen (i think) coupled together with a black square head. Its weird bc i rarely drive people in my back seat. I have also not noticed any malfunctions (yet). Anyone have any clue what im talking about

out on the right side of my backseats kinda where the leather and the felt meet. It was actually three wires blueredgreen (i think) coupled together with a black square head. Its weird bc i rarely drive people in my back seat. I have also not noticed any malfunctions (yet). Anyone have any clue what im talking about Thats probably for the battery monitor. If you look at new cars parked in a bmw

BMW SERIES 6 Business guys - Would you put a client in the back seat

If youre taking them out to lunch or something is the back seat satisfactorily large enough to haul a full sized human in reasonable comfort a few miles backforth to the local eatery My wifes looking for a nice convertible. Immediately I though 911 but she reminded me that at least one of our cars should be a 4-seater. As a major hardcore 2-wheel aficionado Ive had to ride in the clients car to lunch

Hmmn. I guess I need to decide whether I really care or not then I should probably go look at one closely sit in the back seat etc. For the record the back seat in a 1-series is fair enough game for me. em if they cant take a joke. Theyll be riding (albeit a tad cramped) in a very nice car. When it comes down to it I think if Im going to spend a few beans and get a car I want Im going to get the car I want.

BMW SERIES 5 E39 Need Help Drivers Seat Back Removal - Somethings Loose...

Theres something in the back rest of my drivers seat at about the midpoint that moves from side-to-side when making turns at very moderate speeds. I can actually feel it and it is very annoying. All motorized functions are working fine. Anyone out there have any advise or instructions as to taking the back of the seat rest off and or what the problem may be The car is a 2000 540i. Help

phat2000 i think this is what youre talking about. dont worry mine does it too just not enough for me to dismantle my seat to find. httpwww.bmwtips.comtipsntricksindex.htm go down under interior its like 9 and 10. this addresses what i think youre talking about but this isnt the exact thing that i saw for the fix. the fix that i saw (once looking at the pictures youll probably know what im talking

BMW SERIES 3 E90 E91 E92 E93 CoupeConvertible Back seat conversion insert for

Does anyone know of a supplier for a conversion kit for an insert for the back seat of a 3 series coupe or convertible. I have read about the supplier of the x6 back seat insert. Thanks

BMW SERIES 5 E39 540 sport seat causes severe back pain

I was very excited to get an 02 540i 6 speed a couple years ago from original owner. Perfect shape but as it turned out very painful to drive as the seat causes severe lower back pain with even short trips. These are the sport seats with thigh support but without lumbar settings. Ive heard there is a comfort seat. Does anyone know about this issue and possible fix Where could I get comfort seats Thanks

jcortho - I feel your pain mate Even customising my two prior cars I thought that buying a bmw would solve my need to modify seats... Wrong after 45mins in the Sport seat my lower back was killing me. I was a bit disappointed that the seats dont have manual lumbar in them. So what joebox has done is a fantastic idea I might check my dealer and see whats involved in doing it. Cheers

BMW SERIES 3 E90 E91 E92 E93 1 Series takes back seat to 3 series

Only because a certain knucklehead I know recently told me that the 135i is the best car bmw makes right now (and to try and make his ridiculous statement even more impacting he cited TOP GEARs alleged similar statement) please let me point out that its owners are pretty well uninspired. Proof Those currently viewing the 3 series forum on Bimmerfest 586. Those viewing 1 series forum 15. Theyre so into their cars Enough said.

Quote Originally Posted by paximperium I love how the 1-series handles especially the 135...unfortunately the 1-series is fugly. The only negatives for the 1 series is it loses on looks to the 3 series and the back-seat area is a joke. Otherwise the 135i coupe is a badass drive

Quote Originally Posted by paximperium Please keep your finger off my argument. Thats just inappropriate. It is better then in it. Dont let the suckers in the 6 series know they are driving the worst BWM available for the month of August second YTD. It is all personal taste on what you like more and what you need. I bet people shy away from the 1 series due to size and the price being so close to the

BMW SERIES 6 Seat-Back Net Pocket Replacement

I was wondering if anyone knew how to remove the net on the back of the front seats The frame of the net is showing some serious wear and tear and I would like to get it repainted. I checked with the dealer and bmw does not sell that part individually must get the whole seatback.

BMW SERIES 5 F10 F11 Back seats DVD screens

I am planning to fix two DVD screens on the back seats through the dealer dose anyone have an idea if this would damage the electrical system of the car Dose it have something to do with battery life time Dose it work (DVD screens ) while the car is moving Dose fixing those DVD screens requires doing any holes in the seat it self

to fix two DVD screens on the back seats through the dealer dose anyone have an idea if this would damage the electrical system of the car Dose it have something to do with battery life time Dose it work (DVD screens ) while the car is moving Dose fixing those DVD screens requires doing any holes in the seat it self Need a little more info on what youre planning on doing. Is this the bmw

BMW SERIES 5 Need to find replacement bolt for back seat.

Im missing two bolts for my back seat on my bmw 2003 525i car. These bolts are located on each side of the car where the back cushion meets with the bottom cushion. Both bolts on each side are missing so I dont have an original to compare it with. Where can I find replacement bolts I tried looking at all the online bmw website but no luck. Can someone show me a picture of the bolts and the specs I would very much appreciate it.

BMW SERIES 3 E90 E91 E92 E93 Folding Back Seats

Going from a SUV to a bmw I didnt think that my snowboard wouldnt fit in the trunk. Well I was all excited about going snowboarding this weekend til I tried to fit my board in my trunk. It doesnt fit. Does anyone know if any part of the back seats fold down wo the cold weather package

Quote Originally Posted by Queta731 Going from a SUV to a bmw I didnt think that my snowboard wouldnt fit in the trunk. Well I was all excited about going snowboarding this weekend til I tried to fit my board in my trunk. It doesnt fit. Does anyone know if any part of the back seats fold down wo the cold weather package No I believe only if you have the fold-down rear seat option alone or in the CWP.

BMW SERIES 3 E90 E91 E92 E93 Power Seat Issue - Movable Back Rest Sides

For lack of a better description I am referring to the movables back rest sides of the power seat that squeeze your sides. I doubt this is normal operation but since this is my only bmw I have nothing to compare. When I operate the movable sides while driving they do not retain their position. Over the coarse of about 30 to 45 seconds they will return to the outer most position. This sounds like a

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